Author Topic: Malcolm butler  (Read 630 times)

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Offline dbldwn711

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Re: Malcolm butler
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2018, 07:56:06 PM »
Look- he played.  And even if he didn't, he could have, since he was dressed.  So either the conspiracy's there, or it isn't.

I do wonder if the Pats fanbase is blaming Belichick / Butler for the loss though.

Whatever rule butler violated he let his teammates down when he violated it. No question

When BB benched him for the entire game BB disrespected all the hard work and sacrifices the players and coaches made to get them there bc clearly whatever butler did/didn't do does not warrant an entire game benching
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Offline Mr. Shickadance

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Re: Malcolm butler
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2018, 08:18:03 PM »
Whatever rule butler violated he let his teammates down when he violated it. No question

When BB benched him for the entire game BB disrespected all the hard work and sacrifices the players and coaches made to get them there bc clearly whatever butler did/didn't do does not warrant an entire game benching

How is it clear though if we have no idea what he did or didn't do?
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Offline Mr. Shickadance

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Re: Malcolm butler
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2018, 08:27:07 PM »
Looks like the weed and curfew angle came from his former teammate, Brandon Browner.

https://nypost.com/2018/02/05/malcolm-butlers-ex-teammate-weed-curfew-led-to-benching/
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Offline dbldwn711

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Re: Malcolm butler
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2018, 08:52:46 PM »
How is it clear though if we have no idea what he did or didn't do?

 Bc shick, to me, what could be so egregious that he is benched for an entire game? I guess I’m assuming there isn’t anything bc if it was THAT serious, why suit up at all? 

No... BB knew butler had all the leverage (last game of the year, unrestricted FA at the end of the year, etc) so all he could do is be petty like he was.

Did the pats lose bc of this? No... but it was a contributing factor.  There is no one thing.  This certainly didn’t help
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Offline Fish-on087

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Re: Malcolm butler
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2018, 09:33:36 PM »
Bc shick, to me, what could be so egregious that he is benched for an entire game? I guess I’m assuming there isn’t anything bc if it was THAT serious, why suit up at all? 

No... BB knew butler had all the leverage (last game of the year, unrestricted FA at the end of the year, etc) so all he could do is be petty like he was.

Did the pats lose bc of this? No... but it was a contributing factor.  There is no one thing.  This certainly didn’t help

Well said
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Offline dbldwn711

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Re: Malcolm butler
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2018, 09:40:08 PM »
Well said

To me fish this story is more about next year and how the players respond more than about this SB. If I’m a player on this team I trust the coach to do what’s best for the team. Even if that is means he has to put his own ego aside.  I think that’s what the players are questioning.
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Online Mannyrules3

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Re: Malcolm butler
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2018, 10:19:44 PM »
Bc shick, to me, what could be so egregious that he is benched for an entire game? I guess I’m assuming there isn’t anything bc if it was THAT serious, why suit up at all? 

No... BB knew butler had all the leverage (last game of the year, unrestricted FA at the end of the year, etc) so all he could do is be petty like he was.

Did the pats lose bc of this? No... but it was a contributing factor.  There is no one thing.  This certainly didn’t help

Because one single play by Malcolm Butler could never decide the outcome of a super bowl. :/

Offline Realityball

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Re: Malcolm butler
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2018, 10:32:54 PM »







  Because Butler played on special teams, I bet the “problem” was between him and Patricia ... Malcolm probably called him a fuuckin fat ass thinking he could get away with it since the fat ass just about left for Detroit last week ... or he coached like he did anyway




... my take









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Offline Fog

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Re: Malcolm butler
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2018, 11:37:12 PM »
Ha Ha...

He had his 15 minutes of fame....

He sucks....
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Offline Mr. Shickadance

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Re: Malcolm butler
« Reply #34 on: February 06, 2018, 05:07:40 AM »
Bc shick, to me, what could be so egregious that he is benched for an entire game? I guess I’m assuming there isn’t anything bc if it was THAT serious, why suit up at all? 

No... BB knew butler had all the leverage (last game of the year, unrestricted FA at the end of the year, etc) so all he could do is be petty like he was.

Did the pats lose bc of this? No... but it was a contributing factor.  There is no one thing.  This certainly didn’t help

Why let him suit up at all? To at least let him play in the SB.

"Okay, you messed up and we have to discipline you, but we we don't want to prevent you front playing in the biggest game of the season, so you get to be on special teams only. For one play."
« Last Edit: February 06, 2018, 05:48:43 AM by Mr. Shickadance »
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Offline wild-turkey

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Re: Malcolm butler
« Reply #35 on: February 06, 2018, 08:01:15 AM »
This is part of the reason I don’t really care for the NFL as it is too gladiator oriented.  When I read the article I’m like good bench the punk.  I’m just shocked BB actually did something decent instead of cheating.

I get dbldwn’s position in that the Patriots are there to win for their fans period and he feels they have an obligations to do whatever is in their power to do it.  In my world Auburn has kicked off or run off at least 5 extremely talented and at times needed players but I’ve supported it every time.  I’ll take the L every time if it is because we are protecting the integrity of the University.  However the University has a higher mission then winning football games and what the team does reflects back on me as an Alum.  That matters to me.

When you are a fan of a pro team all that matters is trophies to a large extent.  I just don’t get overly excepted by that.  I love the underdog, the kids that are playing simply for the love of the game and the quirky traditions.

So while I get it I don’t buy into it.

Offline dbldwn711

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Re: Malcolm butler
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2018, 08:47:34 AM »
This is part of the reason I don’t really care for the NFL as it is too gladiator oriented.  When I read the article I’m like good bench the punk.  I’m just shocked BB actually did something decent instead of cheating.

I get dbldwn’s position in that the Patriots are there to win for their fans period and he feels they have an obligations to do whatever is in their power to do it.  In my world Auburn has kicked off or run off at least 5 extremely talented and at times needed players but I’ve supported it every time.  I’ll take the L every time if it is because we are protecting the integrity of the University.  However the University has a higher mission then winning football games and what the team does reflects back on me as an Alum.  That matters to me.

When you are a fan of a pro team all that matters is trophies to a large extent.  I just don’t get overly excepted by that.  I love the underdog, the kids that are playing simply for the love of the game and the quirky traditions.

So while I get it I don’t buy into it.

Thanks for the reply man. I know you aren't a big pro guy... You're much more of a college guy and I get it. Growing up in the NE the caliber of college ball is nowhere near what you guys have going on down there.  I think that's a big part of it.

To clarify, I don't think BB owes the fans anything. MAYBE a little but that's a stretch. My point was he owes the other players and coaches who sacrificed a lot (playing injured, working 20 hours at the facility to get ready for games sometimes, etc) to put them in a position to win. He can't put his ego ahead of those efforts.

Thr butler situation has been brewing for a year.  He's grossly underpaid for 1) how good he is and 2) how much he plays.  He wasn't happy. He sucked it up and played this year.  Now he has the leverage and this was BB giving him a FU on the way out the door. Problem is he hurt all the other guys on the team in the process.

This isn't gonna go away. Guys in that locker room are now openly questioning BB. They play hurt, work hard, etc bc they trust him. If he loses that trust... He's done.
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Offline NFL-Solomon

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Re: Malcolm butler
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2018, 09:05:44 AM »
Manny you are 100% correct.  This was stupid. BB talks about situational football.  He preaches every situation is different. If this was week 4 he benched butler and then trades him. He has all the power. However, it’s SB and butler is an unrestricted free agent so he can’t trade him. He has no leverage. He didn’t like that. So he waited till right before game time and the guy who preaches no distractions and no drama creates all of that!  Why? Because one of his rules got violated? That’s petty.

These players sacrifice a lot for him. They play hurt. These coaches sacrifice time with their families.  They are owed a lot more than BB ego was bruised.  They are owed the opportunity to win this game with the best players on the field.  If I was a player I’d be pissed
You're right, it was F***ing hilarious.
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Offline Mr. Shickadance

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Re: Malcolm butler
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2018, 09:28:56 AM »
Thanks for the reply man. I know you aren't a big pro guy... You're much more of a college guy and I get it. Growing up in the NE the caliber of college ball is nowhere near what you guys have going on down there.  I think that's a big part of it.

To clarify, I don't think BB owes the fans anything. MAYBE a little but that's a stretch. My point was he owes the other players and coaches who sacrificed a lot (playing injured, working 20 hours at the facility to get ready for games sometimes, etc) to put them in a position to win. He can't put his ego ahead of those efforts.

Thr butler situation has been brewing for a year.  He's grossly underpaid for 1) how good he is and 2) how much he plays.  He wasn't happy. He sucked it up and played this year.  Now he has the leverage and this was BB giving him a FU on the way out the door. Problem is he hurt all the other guys on the team in the process.

This isn't gonna go away. Guys in that locker room are now openly questioning BB. They play hurt, work hard, etc bc they trust him. If he loses that trust... He's done.

The problem is that if he had let Butler play he would have reversed everything he had set up over the past almost two decades. It's absolutely no secret the Belichick is a strict disciplinarian and plays no favorites...

And before anyone says "well, if it was Tom Brady...." my pre-counter argument is that Brady wouldn't do something like that to put himself and his team in that position.

Belichick can't simply say "well,  normally I'd bench you for what happened, but since it's the Super Bowl I'll give you a pass and worry about the punishment later".

That sets a bad precedent in the locker room as well. I doubt it all just boils down to ego and Belichick just wanted to fuck Butler over because he could. He had to make Butler an example whether anyone like it or not.

This is on Butler more than anyone else. He put himself, his coaches and his team in that position by allegedly doing what he did.
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Offline NFL-Solomon

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Re: Malcolm butler
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2018, 09:38:31 AM »
Who cares, the result was awesome for the whole country?
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Offline Mr. Shickadance

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Re: Malcolm butler
« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2018, 09:51:24 AM »
Well, yeah.....
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Offline Fish-on087

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Re: Malcolm butler
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2018, 10:11:36 AM »
This topic is so perplexing Wrestling with reason takes on different approaches from opposite ends of the spectrum and even when the final solutions seems apparent, what you think maybe unreasonable again.

I think some key factors need to be addressed but are not specific enough to warrant a concrete decision. It's rules vs. authority.

Are rules made to be broken?,  Should rules be applied for the best interest for the team? Do rules become arbitrary when authority is involved? How do rules affect moral, are they more so to be negative or positive on the team and when administered by authority are they viewed with the same impact?

Is authority to be questioned?. Does authority play by the rules too? Does authority have the responsibility to apply the rules indiscriminately or by the stature that he is the authority apply them with arbitrary understanding? Is authority the final step?


Is the interpretation of the rules strictly an authority decision

Butler broke a rule ( maybe more than one but at least one )
As pointed out by Schick, it's a NFL policy ( if the rule broken had anything to do with weed )
If the decision to bench him is  only based on that involvement then NFL policy dictates the punishment and Butler knew this.
 I think it had to do with more than that. 
If the fear of NFL sanctions  looms over the Patriots management then why was Butler allowed to play  but not on defense. Was the rule applied in an arbitrary manner by authority? Maybe as reported Butler did in fact go on a tirade with the coaching staff. If this is the base of his benching then TEAM rules apply and they are subject to authority and the interpretation of that authority. Belichick is the authority. The decision was prior to game time which leaves me to believe BB was not rushed into his decision. Belichick could have addressed this long before minutes to game time, he could have used his authority to discuss this with Butler and arbitrate a reasonable punishment for a team infraction, something better than a limited role on special teams. Now maybe that was the result of an intimate conversation and maybe the crying Butler did eventually realize the consequences of his actions.
Maybe it wasn't Belichick at all, maybe it was Patricia that made the call and BB loyally backed his coach. This would explain a tirade but the punishment was already administered. then the tirade. Maybe the punishment didn't exist before the tirade and that the authority proposed a penalty and it was the tirade and not the weed that benched him. I believe this more than the weed.
I believe BB, being BB believes his authority is absolute and that these rules whether NFL or team is his responsibility to apply. I believe he tried to send a message to his team that he and not anyone , even Brady, was in charge. I believe the punishment escalated when BB authority was questioned in the tirade and that led to BB and his ego taking control and letting his players know, it's his way and if you intend to play here under me you will be under me.
All in all the situation was blown up by Belichick he had the authority  and the power to administer punishment relevant to the infraction and keeping the team unified. Now, the team is dysfunctional  not being comfortable and reliant on Belichicks authority. Belichick is above the team and he showed it
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Offline NFL-Solomon

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Re: Malcolm butler
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2018, 10:15:33 AM »
No offense fish, but I said it better.
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Offline Fish-on087

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Re: Malcolm butler
« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2018, 10:20:29 AM »
No offense fish, but I said it better.

Thanks, hey, I tried to keep it simple and short. There is so much the public doesn't know yet and eventually, not by Belichick, the story will unfold.  I'm sure you tried to convey your inner most thoughts on this too and did a  good job , I expect nothing less. Keep up the good work.

I'll be the first to say, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia next year ( just had to )
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Re: Malcolm butler
« Reply #44 on: February 06, 2018, 10:24:21 AM »
Thanks, hey, I tried to keep it simple and short. There is so much the public doesn't know yet and eventually, not by Belichick, the story will unfold.  I'm sure you tried to convey your inner most thoughts on this too and did a  good job , I expect nothing less. Keep up the good work.

I'll be the first to say, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia next year ( just had to )

lol. And a fine job you did of it

oh?  Sol? Thoughts?
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Offline NFL-Solomon

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Re: Malcolm butler
« Reply #45 on: February 06, 2018, 10:25:02 AM »
Thanks, hey, I tried to keep it simple and short. There is so much the public doesn't know yet and eventually, not by Belichick, the story will unfold.  I'm sure you tried to convey your inner most thoughts on this too and did a  good job , I expect nothing less. Keep up the good work.

I'll be the first to say, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia next year ( just had to )
God, I hope not, Philly is Pittsburgh's Kryptonite.
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Offline Mr. Shickadance

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Re: Malcolm butler
« Reply #46 on: February 06, 2018, 10:31:53 AM »
Thanks, hey, I tried to keep it simple and short.

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Offline dbldwn711

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Re: Malcolm butler
« Reply #47 on: February 06, 2018, 10:43:10 AM »
The problem is that if he had let Butler play he would have reversed everything he had set up over the past almost two decades. It's absolutely no secret the Belichick is a strict disciplinarian and plays no favorites...

And before anyone says "well, if it was Tom Brady...." my pre-counter argument is that Brady wouldn't do something like that to put himself and his team in that position.

Belichick can't simply say "well,  normally I'd bench you for what happened, but since it's the Super Bowl I'll give you a pass and worry about the punishment later".

That sets a bad precedent in the locker room as well. I doubt it all just boils down to ego and Belichick just wanted to fuck Butler over because he could. He had to make Butler an example whether anyone like it or not.

This is on Butler more than anyone else. He put himself, his coaches and his team in that position by allegedly doing what he did.

I don't think it's that simple Shick. The only rule I heard he broke was a curfew rule.  He got back late from a concert. The weed story has not been proven. He could have not started him, made him sit a quarter or half, etc.  Missing a curfew is not a benching.

This is more complex.  I can see it bc ive watched this relationship deteriorate for a year.  This was personal. Why do I say that? Bc of the timing of when he told butler: after warm ups as they are about to go on the field.  That's big. That's what is causing problems in the locker room. If you're gonna not have him play bc of a curfew violation you tell him (and everyone) at the time of the infraction.  That way the backups get more reps in practice, everybody knows what to do and is prepared, etc.

This is more complex than meets the eye.
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Offline Fish-on087

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Re: Malcolm butler
« Reply #48 on: February 06, 2018, 10:46:03 AM »
"Do, or do not. There is no try."

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Hey YODA, My comment which included the word "tried " is not indicative of failure but rather confirmation of a successful accomplishment. grin1
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Offline Mr. Shickadance

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Re: Malcolm butler
« Reply #49 on: February 06, 2018, 10:52:59 AM »
I don't think it's that simple Shick. The only rule I heard he broke was a curfew rule.  He got back late from a concert. The weed story has not been proven. He could have not started him, made him sit a quarter or half, etc.  Missing a curfew is not a benching.

This is more complex.  I can see it bc ive watched this relationship deteriorate for a year.  This was personal. Why do I say that? Bc of the timing of when he told butler: after warm ups as they are about to go on the field.  That's big. That's what is causing problems in the locker room. If you're gonna not have him play bc of a curfew violation you tell him (and everyone) at the time of the infraction.  That way the backups get more reps in practice, everybody knows what to do and is prepared, etc.

This is more complex than meets the eye.

I know you don't think missing a curfew warrants a benching, and neither do I, but that doesn't mean that Belichick doesn't either and even if he didn't, the fact that he did essentially bench him, right before game time tells me that Butler did more than just miss a curfew.

Belichick has sent starting players home simply for being late to meetings, let alone missing curfew.
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