Author Topic: Illegal Immigrants Are Rats To Society  (Read 1226 times)

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Online kburjr

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Re: Illegal Immigrants Are Rats To Society
« Reply #75 on: February 14, 2018, 03:23:14 PM »
I don't really care what sort of company it is, whether it's trading in plundered artifacts or working with dopey craft store people who talk a little too much about Jesus.  This is about equality under the law and abuse of the 1st Amendment.

Does their heathcare program pay for condoms? Vasectomies?
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Offline Misterfamous

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Re: Illegal Immigrants Are Rats To Society
« Reply #76 on: February 14, 2018, 03:24:57 PM »
Does their heathcare program pay for condoms? Vasectomies?
Does it matter ?  If the ACA says everyone's healthcare plan has to cover A, B, C and D, then Hobby Lobby doesn't get to say, "We don't want to cover B, because Jesus".
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Online kburjr

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Re: Illegal Immigrants Are Rats To Society
« Reply #77 on: February 14, 2018, 03:34:50 PM »
Does it matter ?  If the ACA says everyone's healthcare plan has to cover A, B, C and D, then Hobby Lobby doesn't get to say, "We don't want to cover B, because Jesus".

If the plan covers birth control for women, then it should for men.  Treated equally under the law and all that.
"Democracy? I want nothing to do with a system which operates on the premise that my rights don't exist simply because I am outnumbered."

-  E. Lee Wrights

 “Keep a goverment poor and weak and it's your servant; when it is rich and powerful it becomes your master.”
―H. Beam Piper


“Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance. – H.L. Mencken

Offline Misterfamous

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Re: Illegal Immigrants Are Rats To Society
« Reply #78 on: February 14, 2018, 03:38:20 PM »
If the plan covers birth control for women, then it should for men.  Treated equally under the law and all that.
Sure.  As soon as men have uteruses.
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Online kburjr

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Re: Illegal Immigrants Are Rats To Society
« Reply #79 on: February 14, 2018, 03:42:36 PM »
Sure.  As soon as men have uteruses.

I see.  Birth control is strictly up to the woman.
"Democracy? I want nothing to do with a system which operates on the premise that my rights don't exist simply because I am outnumbered."

-  E. Lee Wrights

 “Keep a goverment poor and weak and it's your servant; when it is rich and powerful it becomes your master.”
―H. Beam Piper


“Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance. – H.L. Mencken

Offline Misterfamous

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Re: Illegal Immigrants Are Rats To Society
« Reply #80 on: February 14, 2018, 03:43:22 PM »
I see.  Birth control is strictly up to the woman.
Hobby Lobby says it's up to Gawd.
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Online kburjr

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Re: Illegal Immigrants Are Rats To Society
« Reply #81 on: February 14, 2018, 03:44:09 PM »
Hobby Lobby says it's up to Gawd.

Gawd helps them who help themselves.
"Democracy? I want nothing to do with a system which operates on the premise that my rights don't exist simply because I am outnumbered."

-  E. Lee Wrights

 “Keep a goverment poor and weak and it's your servant; when it is rich and powerful it becomes your master.”
―H. Beam Piper


“Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance. – H.L. Mencken

Offline Fish-on087

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Re: Illegal Immigrants Are Rats To Society
« Reply #82 on: February 14, 2018, 03:59:50 PM »
I don't really care what sort of company it is, whether it's trading in plundered artifacts or working with dopey craft store people who talk a little too much about Jesus.  This is about equality under the law and abuse of the 1st Amendment.

MF, I certainly get it. The government mandates insurance, Insurance providers write the policies from that point on the government is a non factor. When applying the government as a defendant of law the obligation of the government is to make the law available to all. They did. To charge the government with responsibility of the terms within the policy means the government must have a compelling interest in insurance, it does not . It's responsibility is to create a law that guarantees insurance is provided. The terms of the policies are set by underwriters. The government does not take the risk of insurance. The employees who work at Hobby Lobby and require contraceptive care can opt for another insurance, they don't have to take the offered ones of Hobby Lobby. Hobby Lobby provided the insurance guaranteed by the government.
Your assuming that the only people affected by Hobby Lobby's plans are women, they may not be. The policy is generic enough, it doesn't have to include specifics to accompany all  that may or may not affect the same people.

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Offline Misterfamous

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Re: Illegal Immigrants Are Rats To Society
« Reply #83 on: February 14, 2018, 04:09:34 PM »
MF, I certainly get it. The government mandates insurance, Insurance providers write the policies from that point on the government is a non factor. When applying the government as a defendant of law the obligation of the government is to make the law available to all. They did. To charge the government with responsibility of the terms within the policy means the government must have a compelling interest in insurance, it does not . It's responsibility is to create a law that guarantees insurance is provided. The terms of the policies are set by underwriters. The government does not take the risk of insurance.
I agree with all of this.  If government wants to deal in healthcare coverage (and I think they should), then deal with the true cost drivers of healthcare: the hospitals, the procedures, the drugs and the medical professionals' salaries.  The ACA simply guaranteed insurance to more people, without addressing those cost drivers, and keeping insurance companies entrenched in the market.  It was only ever going to result in the government going into hock for out-of-control costs.

Quote
The employees who work at Hobby Lobby and require contraceptive care can opt for another insurance, they don't have to take the offered ones of Hobby Lobby. Hobby Lobby provided the insurance guaranteed by the government.
...creating two classes of employees who are supposed to have their healthcare (and healthcare costs) guaranteed by the government to be the same.  Instead, a second-class employee is forced to find their birth control elsewhere, and at higher costs.

Quote
Your assuming that the only people affected by Hobby Lobby's plans are women, they may not be. The policy is generic enough, it doesn't have to include specifics to accompany all  that may or may not affect the same people.
Not an assumption.  I believe the part they objected to was about specific contraceptive methods- oral birth control pills of one type or another.
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Offline Mannyrules3

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Re: Illegal Immigrants Are Rats To Society
« Reply #84 on: February 14, 2018, 04:37:49 PM »
I hate the thing too, and the way it was passed.  But once passed, it either applies equally across the board, or not at all.  Use virtually any other example- say, the ability to sacrifice a newborn child, and does "religious exception" provide the ability to keep such practices ?

This, times the diameter of Yahweh's right testicle, squared.

Offline Mannyrules3

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Re: Illegal Immigrants Are Rats To Society
« Reply #85 on: February 14, 2018, 04:39:36 PM »
I see.  Birth control is strictly up to the woman.

I'm only shooting on your face, so's ya don't get pregnant.  Is what I tell 'em.

Offline Mannyrules3

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Re: Illegal Immigrants Are Rats To Society
« Reply #86 on: February 14, 2018, 04:41:34 PM »
My point is that it is creating a LAW that is proscribed, not the anti-logical notion that putting up a menorah or creche somehow violates that. What does it do? Create an invisible law?

The intermingling of religion and government is not prohibited under the 1st Am, only the legal codification of such.

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying here but I think we mostly agree.

Offline Mannyrules3

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Re: Illegal Immigrants Are Rats To Society
« Reply #87 on: February 14, 2018, 04:42:44 PM »
Most of our laws are based in Judeo Christianity.

Fuck Judeo Christianity.

Offline Mannyrules3

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Re: Illegal Immigrants Are Rats To Society
« Reply #88 on: February 14, 2018, 04:46:18 PM »
I hate the thing too, and the way it was passed.  But once passed, it either applies equally across the board, or not at all.  Use virtually any other example- say, the ability to sacrifice a newborn child, and does "religious exception" provide the ability to keep such practices ?

I meant to being this up in the Jesus Flu thread. What would happen to me, legally, if I took a basket of tomatoes out to Boston Common and told people these tomatoes would protect them from the flu and they shouldn't get a flu shot.  I'm handing said miracle tomatoes out for free.

What would happen to me, legally speaking?

Offline BuccinGator

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Re: Illegal Immigrants Are Rats To Society
« Reply #89 on: February 14, 2018, 05:00:14 PM »
I meant to being this up in the Jesus Flu thread. What would happen to me, legally, if I took a basket of tomatoes out to Boston Common and told people these tomatoes would protect them from the flu and they shouldn't get a flu shot.  I'm handing said miracle tomatoes out for free.

What would happen to me, legally speaking?

Legally speaking I'm not so sure, but I'd be willing to bet you'd get a couple of natural born suckers to step right up (and several more describing you as a moron snake oil salesman).
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Offline NFL-Solomon

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Re: Illegal Immigrants Are Rats To Society
« Reply #90 on: February 14, 2018, 05:00:36 PM »
This, times the diameter of Yahweh's right testicle, squared.
OOOoooo bad Libtard, you just assumed Yahweh's gender!!!
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Re: Illegal Immigrants Are Rats To Society
« Reply #91 on: February 14, 2018, 05:07:24 PM »
OOOoooo bad Libtard, you just assumed Yahweh's gender!!!

He's not the first.

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Offline Mannyrules3

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Re: Illegal Immigrants Are Rats To Society
« Reply #92 on: February 14, 2018, 05:31:11 PM »
OOOoooo bad Libtard, you just assumed Yahweh's gender!!!

I just blindly follow the Bible like the other derptarded Christians.

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Re: Illegal Immigrants Are Rats To Society
« Reply #93 on: February 14, 2018, 05:42:53 PM »
I reckon, in a season where people are dying from the flu at the rate of 4000 souls a week, if I went out with my Flu Tomatoes and convinced parents to choose my wonderous fruit over flu vaccinations for their children, and some of those children died of the flu, there would be lawsuits.  Very successful and lucrative lawsuits.  And me rightly in jail.

But worthless twat Gloria "child murderer" Copeland says Jesus instead of Tomato and its all fine.  Dead kids?  Who cares.

Online kburjr

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Re: Illegal Immigrants Are Rats To Society
« Reply #94 on: February 14, 2018, 05:46:49 PM »
Ig Gawd created us in his image, he is one fucked up sonuvabitch
"Democracy? I want nothing to do with a system which operates on the premise that my rights don't exist simply because I am outnumbered."

-  E. Lee Wrights

 “Keep a goverment poor and weak and it's your servant; when it is rich and powerful it becomes your master.”
―H. Beam Piper


“Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

Democracy is a pathetic belief in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance. – H.L. Mencken

Offline Mannyrules3

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Re: Illegal Immigrants Are Rats To Society
« Reply #95 on: February 14, 2018, 05:48:19 PM »
Ig Gawd created us in his image, he is one fucked up sonuvabitch

He's eternal though, so His balls always look 21 years old.

Offline Fish-on087

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Re: Illegal Immigrants Are Rats To Society
« Reply #96 on: February 14, 2018, 06:14:34 PM »
...creating two classes of employees who are supposed to have their healthcare (and healthcare costs) guaranteed by the government to be the same.  Instead, a second-class employee is forced to find their birth control elsewhere, and at higher costs.


I think your missing what I said.  The government is not involved in the creation or framing of insurance policies.  The government ( and we're specifically talking about the federal ) outlined what costs and provisions were to be offered so as the poorest could receive health care. not equal health care ( obviously that would require a higher premium ) and so there were tiers created and those policies stayed within the guidelines of cost to offer plans AFFORDABLE care. The government left it up to the health care providers to frame policies within these guidelines, Aetna plan was different than Blue Cross within that price range. The government did their job, they created affordable health care.
It's not the governments fault that citizen A cannot get coverage from plan H at Hobby Lobby. Plan H is also available at Hobby Lobby's competitor nobody is telling A that they have to work at Hobby Lobby and if they do, they assume the working environment Hobby Lobby provides. The government was successful in what it was suppose to do.
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Offline Misterfamous

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Re: Illegal Immigrants Are Rats To Society
« Reply #97 on: February 14, 2018, 07:08:02 PM »
This, times the diameter of Yahweh's right testicle, squared.
We's in the minority on this one.


Fuck Judeo Christianity.
There's that phrase again.  Don't the Joooos and Christies hate each other, and blame each other for fucking up each other's End Times mythos (at least until the Moooslimians came around and really started cracking skulls) ?


OOOoooo bad Libtard, you just assumed Yahweh's gender!!!
Gotta be a man.  Otherwise, why wouldn't it be cool not to knock your women around ?
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Offline Misterfamous

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Re: Illegal Immigrants Are Rats To Society
« Reply #98 on: February 14, 2018, 07:13:51 PM »
I think your missing what I said.  The government is not involved in the creation or framing of insurance policies.  The government ( and we're specifically talking about the federal ) outlined what costs and provisions were to be offered so as the poorest could receive health care. not equal health care ( obviously that would require a higher premium ) and so there were tiers created and those policies stayed within the guidelines of cost to offer plans AFFORDABLE care. The government left it up to the health care providers to frame policies within these guidelines, Aetna plan was different than Blue Cross within that price range. The government did their job, they created affordable health care.
Mostly, yes.  Except that all the tiers include birth control.  Hobby Lobby didn't want to comply with any tiered plan guideline because of the birth control provision.  So they screamed something about "religious accomodation" and Obama and the spineless Democrats said okay.
Quote
It's not the governments fault that citizen A cannot get coverage from plan H at Hobby Lobby. Plan H is also available at Hobby Lobby's competitor nobody is telling A that they have to work at Hobby Lobby and if they do, they assume the working environment Hobby Lobby provides. The government was successful in what it was suppose to do.
Hobby Lobby abused the 1st Amendment so that they could get out of the government-designed tiered plan guidelines, as mandated by the law.  Yeah, great- you say that of course the people were able to go elsewhere and get insurance out of their own pocket, or quit their jobs and look for a fairly implemented plan at another place of employment.  But they shouldn't have to take such a drastic step.  Either everyone is equally treated under the law, or none of them are.  This was an example of fundamentalist control freaks creating a tier of 2nd class citizens.
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Offline NFL-Solomon

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Re: Illegal Immigrants Are Rats To Society
« Reply #99 on: February 14, 2018, 07:26:30 PM »
Mostly, yes.  Except that all the tiers include birth control.  Hobby Lobby didn't want to comply with any tiered plan guideline because of the birth control provision.  So they screamed something about "religious accomodation" and Obama and the spineless Democrats said okay.Hobby Lobby abused the 1st Amendment so that they could get out of the government-designed tiered plan guidelines, as mandated by the law.  Yeah, great- you say that of course the people were able to go elsewhere and get insurance out of their own pocket, or quit their jobs and look for a fairly implemented plan at another place of employment.  But they shouldn't have to take such a drastic step.  Either everyone is equally treated under the law, or none of them are.  This was an example of fundamentalist control freaks creating a tier of 2nd class citizens.
because they exceeded their constitutional authority and violated Hobby Lobby's 1st Am rights.
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