Author Topic: Top 10 Liberal Freakouts of 2018!  (Read 524 times)

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Offline Tom Ace

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Re: Top 10 Liberal Freakouts of 2018!
« Reply #175 on: February 13, 2019, 01:33:42 PM »
The office of the President is the head of the Federation of States.  He is not a president of the people.  The fact that your state allows you to vote and have a say in who your state's choice is for president is all that the Constitution guarantees.  I won't say it's right, but that is how it is.

Too much is being made of the Office.  The Executive Branch is to execute the will of Congress, nothing more, nothing less.  I personally believe that the office should be non-partisan.

I understand how it is, and I'm saying it should be different.  The president doesn't have as much power as a lot of people think, but it still does have considerable power.  Even outside of actual direct power to create things, the president is extremely influential. 

How would you propose for the office to be non-partisan?  What would that look like?

Offline kburjr

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Re: Top 10 Liberal Freakouts of 2018!
« Reply #176 on: February 13, 2019, 01:41:59 PM »
I understand how it is, and I'm saying it should be different.  The president doesn't have as much power as a lot of people think, but it still does have considerable power.  Even outside of actual direct power to create things, the president is extremely influential. 

How would you propose for the office to be non-partisan?  What would that look like?

 

The closest equivalency is the office of City Manager vs the Mayor/Alderman model.
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Offline Fish-on087

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Re: Top 10 Liberal Freakouts of 2018!
« Reply #177 on: February 13, 2019, 02:24:24 PM »
Thanks for the apology.  I understand the history of the EC. I understand the arguments for it.  I just disagree.  My vote essentially doesn't count because I'm in a state that has no chance of electing a republican.  When election day rolls around, my vote is a formality.  No matter what I do, my state is going to vote for the democrat.  If my vote was counted individually toward the overall election, I'd have more of a say.  And if you have the support of the majority of Americans, you should be the winner, regardless of where those people live in the country.

Think of it this way TOM, Your vote did count. The overall districts in each state carried the republican ( the EC ). Your district sent in a republican vote but your state didn't OK so you as an individual can only rely on the remaining states to bond together and vote your guy in. The system worked for you overall.  I'll use California for an example. The red districts in California were outnumbered by the blue ( slightly but outnumbered ) California went blue. Those red districts didn't carry the state so their only way at recourse or a fair chance of their guy winning was the hope that enough smaller states went red and accumulated enough EC votes to counter the California votes, they depended on the EC. That way their say.


New Jersey is always blue so I rely on the states that have a proximity in EC votes to counter New Jerseys blue. I'm in the same boat. If the current blue states that have an overwhelming populous in the cities continued to vote blue in a popular vote, we'd only have 1 party government. Nobody wants that. Sometimes ya win and sometimes ya lose, just enjoy the times you win and plan ahead when ya lose.


As a republican I lost before ( although I felt the presidents like Clinton and Obama were not too bad) and had to deal with it. Even though my party lost, I still supported the system because I feel it gives me ( my party ) a chance against the larger blue states. If Clinton would have won the EC, would there be a discussion on it?
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Offline Tom Ace

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Re: Top 10 Liberal Freakouts of 2018!
« Reply #178 on: February 13, 2019, 03:32:12 PM »
Think of it this way TOM, Your vote did count. The overall districts in each state carried the republican ( the EC ). Your district sent in a republican vote but your state didn't OK so you as an individual can only rely on the remaining states to bond together and vote your guy in. The system worked for you overall.  I'll use California for an example. The red districts in California were outnumbered by the blue ( slightly but outnumbered ) California went blue. Those red districts didn't carry the state so their only way at recourse or a fair chance of their guy winning was the hope that enough smaller states went red and accumulated enough EC votes to counter the California votes, they depended on the EC. That way their say.


New Jersey is always blue so I rely on the states that have a proximity in EC votes to counter New Jerseys blue. I'm in the same boat. If the current blue states that have an overwhelming populous in the cities continued to vote blue in a popular vote, we'd only have 1 party government. Nobody wants that. Sometimes ya win and sometimes ya lose, just enjoy the times you win and plan ahead when ya lose.


As a republican I lost before ( although I felt the presidents like Clinton and Obama were not too bad) and had to deal with it. Even though my party lost, I still supported the system because I feel it gives me ( my party ) a chance against the larger blue states. If Clinton would have won the EC, would there be a discussion on it?

What I'm saying is my state is not going to elect a republican.  In the next election, I already know they're going to vote for the democrat.  Of course, that's probably who I'm going to vote for, if I don't go third party.  But it means that my vote is essentially useless.  If I don't vote at all, it won't change the result.  If I vote democrat, it just means the democrat wins bigger.  If I vote for anyone else, it's not going to do anything. 

Offline kburjr

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Re: Top 10 Liberal Freakouts of 2018!
« Reply #179 on: February 13, 2019, 03:36:43 PM »
What I'm saying is my state is not going to elect a republican.  In the next election, I already know they're going to vote for the democrat.  Of course, that's probably who I'm going to vote for, if I don't go third party.  But it means that my vote is essentially useless.  If I don't vote at all, it won't change the result.  If I vote democrat, it just means the democrat wins bigger.  If I vote for anyone else, it's not going to do anything. 

That can be said for 99.9...% of elections anywhere.  How many elections are decided by 1 vote?
The less politicians control, the less it matters who controls the politicians.

“Getting old is giving up one damn thing after another.” - Irvin Yalom

 “Keep a goverment poor and weak and it's your servant; when it is rich and powerful it becomes your master.”
―H. Beam Piper


“Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

Offline Tom Ace

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Re: Top 10 Liberal Freakouts of 2018!
« Reply #180 on: February 13, 2019, 03:46:55 PM »
That can be said for 99.9...% of elections anywhere.  How many elections are decided by 1 vote?

The difference is I know going in that, even if the election might be close overall, my state is already decided.  As I said, I know that in the next election, my vote already doesn't count, regardless of who the candidates are.  That shouldn't be the case.

Offline kburjr

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Re: Top 10 Liberal Freakouts of 2018!
« Reply #181 on: February 13, 2019, 03:50:47 PM »
The difference is I know going in that, even if the election might be close overall, my state is already decided.  As I said, I know that in the next election, my vote already doesn't count, regardless of who the candidates are.  That shouldn't be the case.

I agree for maybe different reasons.  The fact that such a high % of people vote for the party is the culprit.  Where did the independent spirit go?
The less politicians control, the less it matters who controls the politicians.

“Getting old is giving up one damn thing after another.” - Irvin Yalom

 “Keep a goverment poor and weak and it's your servant; when it is rich and powerful it becomes your master.”
―H. Beam Piper


“Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

Offline Fish-on087

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Re: Top 10 Liberal Freakouts of 2018!
« Reply #182 on: February 13, 2019, 04:41:42 PM »
The difference is I know going in that, even if the election might be close overall, my state is already decided.  As I said, I know that in the next election, my vote already doesn't count, regardless of who the candidates are.  That shouldn't be the case.

So essentially you're saying you live in a 1 party state and to feel included you may have to change your voter registration. That delivers a certain satisfaction I guess. I do remember when the south was nothing but red, it is changing. Maybe as people move the demographics will change. It's all about the party winning not you . I live in an area where Whitman was real popular and we were red, now, we're blue, it changes. In 20 years California will be red again, just takes time.
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Offline Misterfamous

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Re: Top 10 Liberal Freakouts of 2018!
« Reply #183 on: February 13, 2019, 07:22:56 PM »
The office of the President is the head of the Federation of States.  He is not a president of the people.  The fact that your state allows you to vote and have a say in who your state's choice is for president is all that the Constitution guarantees.  I won't say it's right, but that is how it is.

Too much is being made of the Office.  The Executive Branch is to execute the will of Congress, nothing more, nothing less.  I personally believe that the office should be non-partisan.
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Offline Tom Ace

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Re: Top 10 Liberal Freakouts of 2018!
« Reply #184 on: February 14, 2019, 07:26:09 AM »
I agree for maybe different reasons.  The fact that such a high % of people vote for the party is the culprit.  Where did the independent spirit go?

Oh, I agree with that, although I don't think the independent spirit went anywhere.  It was just never there.  A run-off style of election would help with this, but even with that, I'd still rather see the popular vote be the determining factor in electing president.

Offline NuminousGuy

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Re: Top 10 Liberal Freakouts of 2018!
« Reply #185 on: February 14, 2019, 10:39:21 AM »



The Great and Powerful Constitution...
helping to protect America from Deplorables since 2015

Offline Fish-on087

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Re: Top 10 Liberal Freakouts of 2018!
« Reply #186 on: February 14, 2019, 11:34:54 AM »



The Great and Powerful Constitution...
….allows you ( in particular ) to be as stupid and ignorant as you want.
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