Author Topic: Acedemia at work  (Read 200 times)

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Offline BuccinGator

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Acedemia at work
« on: March 16, 2019, 05:06:28 PM »
In the wake of the New Zealot attacks on two mosques leading to 49 deaths, some college students found an unusual target and some baffling logic to loose their venom upon. Chelsea Clinton was recently accosted in a viral video by a group of students claiming her "rhetoric," against antisemitism of all things, led to the New Zealand shootings. This led to Clinton getting a group of unusual supporters, including Donald Trump Jr. My question is, when the fuq did speaking out against hate of any kind become "rhetoric" and a bad thing? I really wonder about the state of things sometimes.
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Online kburjr

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Re: Acedemia at work
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2019, 05:14:15 PM »
In the wake of the New Zealot attacks on two mosques leading to 49 deaths, some college students found an unusual target and some baffling logic to loose their venom upon. Chelsea Clinton was recently accosted in a viral video by a group of students claiming her "rhetoric," against antisemitism of all things, led to the New Zealand shootings. This led to Clinton getting a group of unusual supporters, including Donald Trump Jr. My question is, when the fuq did speaking out against hate of any kind become "rhetoric" and a bad thing? I really wonder about the state of things sometimes.

Blaming takes no logic just a target.  This guy is a mass killer. His motives mean absolutely nothing.
The less politicians control, the less it matters who controls the politicians.

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Offline BuccinGator

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Re: Acedemia at work
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2019, 05:17:57 PM »
Blaming takes no logic just a target.  This guy is a mass killer. His motives mean absolutely nothing.

Exactly. And ironically it is the right preaching this, at least in the wake of what has happened.
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Offline Cali Cat

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Re: Acedemia at work
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2019, 05:19:28 PM »
In the wake of the New Zealot attacks on two mosques leading to 49 deaths, some college students found an unusual target and some baffling logic to loose their venom upon. Chelsea Clinton was recently accosted in a viral video by a group of students claiming her "rhetoric," against antisemitism of all things, led to the New Zealand shootings. This led to Clinton getting a group of unusual supporters, including Donald Trump Jr. My question is, when the fuq did speaking out against hate of any kind become "rhetoric" and a bad thing? I really wonder about the state of things sometimes.

Here's my favorite part ...

The student was wearing a Bernie 2020 shirt. facepalm
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Re: Acedemia at work
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2019, 05:25:03 PM »
Blaming takes no logic just a target.  This guy is a mass killer. His motives mean absolutely nothing.

I wonder how the shooter was radicalized?
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Online kburjr

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Re: Acedemia at work
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2019, 05:28:47 PM »
I wonder how the shooter was radicalized?

Peanut allergy?

But, seriously, does it matter?  What a person does with the information he takes in is what counts.  I have read a lot of the so-called hate sites, and I am not radicalized by them.  The fault lays in the individual.  He alone is responsible for his actions. 

Allowing censorship of radical sites is the worst thing that could come about as a result of this shooting.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 05:32:13 PM by kburjr »
The less politicians control, the less it matters who controls the politicians.

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 “Keep a goverment poor and weak and it's your servant; when it is rich and powerful it becomes your master.”
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“Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

Offline Cali Cat

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Re: Acedemia at work
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2019, 05:31:57 PM »
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"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." -Orwell

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." -Heinlein (thanks, kburjr!)

"... I'm dangerous, I'm unhinged, I'm mentally ill ..."  -F  og

Offline Fog

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Re: Acedemia at work
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2019, 05:35:09 PM »
Peanut allergy?

But, seriously, does it matter?  What a person does with the information he takes in is what counts.  I have read a lot of the so-called hate sites, and I am not radicalized by them.  The fault lays in the individual.  He alone is responsible for his actions. 

Allowing censorship of radical sites is the worst thing that could come about as a result of this shooting.

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Offline Cali Cat

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Re: Acedemia at work
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2019, 05:52:47 PM »
Peanut allergy?

But, seriously, does it matter?  What a person does with the information he takes in is what counts.  I have read a lot of the so-called hate sites, and I am not radicalized by them.  The fault lays in the individual.  He alone is responsible for his actions. 

Allowing censorship of radical sites is the worst thing that could come about as a result of this shooting.

You don't think it is worthwhile studying how people get radicalized ... and I mean from any perspective?
I don't know that hate sites should be censored, but I think they should be monitored (and it seems like at least some of them are).
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"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." -Orwell

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." -Heinlein (thanks, kburjr!)

"... I'm dangerous, I'm unhinged, I'm mentally ill ..."  -F  og

Online kburjr

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Re: Acedemia at work
« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2019, 06:54:22 PM »
You don't think it is worthwhile studying how people get radicalized ... and I mean from any perspective?
I don't know that hate sites should be censored, but I think they should be monitored (and it seems like at least some of them are).

The question would be "What are you monitoring for?"  Are you looking for the site to incite murder and mayhem?  Or is hatred of a religion or ethnic group enough?

Now that you have that information, what do you want to do with it?  To me, crime is crime.  This guy had it in himself to commit a mass murder.  Whether it was from a religious or political viewpoint is not issue.  Killing is the crime, not killing a specific group.  I don't believe that calling certain crimes "hate crimes" makes those crimes any more loathsome than a standard crime.
The less politicians control, the less it matters who controls the politicians.

“Getting old is giving up one damn thing after another.” - Irvin Yalom

 “Keep a goverment poor and weak and it's your servant; when it is rich and powerful it becomes your master.”
―H. Beam Piper


“Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

Online Misterfamous

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Re: Acedemia at work
« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2019, 06:57:57 PM »
In the wake of the New Zealot attacks on two mosques leading to 49 deaths, some college students found an unusual target and some baffling logic to loose their venom upon. Chelsea Clinton was recently accosted in a viral video by a group of students claiming her "rhetoric," against antisemitism of all things, led to the New Zealand shootings. This led to Clinton getting a group of unusual supporters, including Donald Trump Jr. My question is, when the fuq did speaking out against hate of any kind become "rhetoric" and a bad thing? I really wonder about the state of things sometimes.
One of the "constants" throughout history, is to blame the Jews.  Whether it's their own misfortune, the misfortune of others around them, or misfortune of someone completely unrelated, it's practically universal.

The rationale of Chelsea-fought-against-Antisemitism-once-and-some-Muslims-don't-get-along-with-some-Jews-so-Chelsea-is-to-be-blamed-for-violence-against-Muslims-even-though-Jews-weren't-responsible-for-this-attack, works well enough for people who are Antisemitic to begin with.  The fact that Chelsea married a Jew is enough for most Antisemites to blame for whatever they want already.

Frankly, the brand of Leftist who hates on Jews because they want to believe all Muslims are a victim class, is disgusting.  It should be enough just to be able to identify who the target of unprovoked attack is, and feel sympathy for them / justice against their attacker.
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Online Misterfamous

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Re: Acedemia at work
« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2019, 06:58:48 PM »
Now that you have that information, what do you want to do with it?  To me, crime is crime.  This guy had it in himself to commit a mass murder.  Whether it was from a religious or political viewpoint is not issue.  Killing is the crime, not killing a specific group.  I don't believe that calling certain crimes "hate crimes" makes those crimes any more loathsome than a standard crime.
^^This.  Well said.
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Offline Cali Cat

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Re: Acedemia at work
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2019, 07:12:26 PM »
The question would be "What are you monitoring for?"  Are you looking for the site to incite murder and mayhem?  Or is hatred of a religion or ethnic group enough?

Now that you have that information, what do you want to do with it?  To me, crime is crime.  This guy had it in himself to commit a mass murder.  Whether it was from a religious or political viewpoint is not issue.  Killing is the crime, not killing a specific group.  I don't believe that calling certain crimes "hate crimes" makes those crimes any more loathsome than a standard crime.

I'm not arguing any of that.
I'm was simply asking whether or not you thought it was worthwhile to study how people get radicalized.
I do.  I think there's at least a possibility it would lead to greater understanding, and greater understanding could lead to possibly counteracting some of it.  Sure, you're always going to have people who would do vile, insane shit anyway.

As for monitoring, maybe I've misunderstood, but I believe some horrific acts like these have been prevented because hate sites have been monitored, people discussing their plans have been identified, and their plans haven't come to fruition because they were stopped before the plans could be carried out.

I don't recall saying it mattered whether it was from a political or religious point of view, nor mentioning hate crimes. 
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"... I'm dangerous, I'm unhinged, I'm mentally ill ..."  -F  og

Offline Cali Cat

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Re: Acedemia at work
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2019, 07:16:51 PM »
Not gonna start a separate thread for this, but I saw this, buccin, and thought of you.

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"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." -Orwell

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." -Heinlein (thanks, kburjr!)

"... I'm dangerous, I'm unhinged, I'm mentally ill ..."  -F  og

Online kburjr

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Re: Acedemia at work
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2019, 07:18:25 PM »
I'm not arguing any of that.
I'm was simply asking whether or not you thought it was worthwhile to study how people get radicalized.
I do.  I think there's at least a possibility it would lead to greater understanding, and greater understanding could lead to possibly counteracting some of it.  Sure, you're always going to have people who would do vile, insane shit anyway.

As for monitoring, maybe I've misunderstood, but I believe some horrific acts like these have been prevented because hate sites have been monitored, people discussing their plans have been identified, and their plans haven't come to fruition because they were stopped before the plans could be carried out.

I don't recall saying it mattered whether it was from a political or religious point of view, nor mentioning hate crimes. 

Radicalization is political, religious or racial for the most part.  Even some environmental radicalization.  As far as how a person becomes radicalized can be studied, sure.  Knowledge is a good thing.  However, they way these sites radicalize a person is no different than conversion in a religious setting. I would even go so far as to say they are exactly the same thing.
The less politicians control, the less it matters who controls the politicians.

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 “Keep a goverment poor and weak and it's your servant; when it is rich and powerful it becomes your master.”
―H. Beam Piper


“Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

Online kburjr

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Re: Acedemia at work
« Reply #15 on: March 16, 2019, 07:21:36 PM »
Radicalization is political, religious or racial for the most part.  Even some environmental radicalization.  As far as how a person becomes radicalized can be studied, sure.  Knowledge is a good thing.  However, they way these sites radicalize a person is no different than conversion in a religious setting. I would even go so far as to say they are exactly the same thing.

For instance, I would say that most of the US is radicalized against communism.  We are constantly bombarded with negative information about communism.  We have been taught to hate Marx, Lenin and Stalin.  The ad thing is we don't know the difference between them, just blind hatred.  Now we hate Putin just as much and he isn't even a communist.
The less politicians control, the less it matters who controls the politicians.

“Getting old is giving up one damn thing after another.” - Irvin Yalom

 “Keep a goverment poor and weak and it's your servant; when it is rich and powerful it becomes your master.”
―H. Beam Piper


“Over himself, over his own body and mind, the individual is sovereign.”
― John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

Offline Cali Cat

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Re: Acedemia at work
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2019, 07:42:39 PM »
Radicalization is political, religious or racial for the most part.  Even some environmental radicalization.  As far as how a person becomes radicalized can be studied, sure.  Knowledge is a good thing.  However, they way these sites radicalize a person is no different than conversion in a religious setting. I would even go so far as to say they are exactly the same thing.

I'll have to defer to you on that, as I have no experience with hate sites (reading a few excerpts, getting nauseous, and then trying to find something to alleviate the knot in my stomach doesn't count as experience) and none with conversion in a religious setting.  I've also never been involved in anything radical.  I went to one Earth First meeting, many years back, heard what they were talking about, thought, yeah, I'm not willing to harm people, and that was that.

For instance, I would say that most of the US is radicalized against communism.  We are constantly bombarded with negative information about communism.  We have been taught to hate Marx, Lenin and Stalin.  The ad thing is we don't know the difference between them, just blind hatred.  Now we hate Putin just as much and he isn't even a communist.

Interestingly, I think your point about communism, while valid, is generational.  That may just be my perspective, though.
I also think those who actually study the people you mentioned are able to separate them from one another.

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"The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command." -Orwell

"Women and cats will do as they please, and men and dogs should relax and get used to the idea." -Heinlein (thanks, kburjr!)

"... I'm dangerous, I'm unhinged, I'm mentally ill ..."  -F  og

Offline PADAK

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Re: Acedemia at work
« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2019, 03:43:22 AM »
Here's my favorite part ...

The student was wearing a Bernie 2020 shirt. facepalm


 what1

Offline BuccinGator

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Re: Acedemia at work
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2019, 08:04:53 AM »
Here's my favorite part ...

The student was wearing a Bernie 2020 shirt. facepalm


 what1

According to our resident professor, this young person is merely one of the bright being freed from the tyranny of the dim. Notice he has yet to post on this thread. Figured at the very least he would make fun of my phone, and the lack of effort on my part to fix my thread title.
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Offline NuminousGuy

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Re: Acedemia at work
« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2019, 12:40:05 PM »
IM"H"O, wasting time (imagining a motive) and providing media exposure to PUBLIC DISPLAY MURDERS is anti-productive, as well as stupid.


Given enough self-centeredness, almost anybody could probably work up a misguided reason to commit a spectacle-murder. Publicizing such shit is rewarding the crime.


Amerika: feel cheated; buy some weapons, figure out how to achieve maximal public exposure and...

                                                   kill, kill, kill


...thereby creating your personal monument and absolving yourself from being a loser.



                                                    shithole


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Offline NuminousGuy

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Re: Acedemia at work
« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2019, 12:44:04 PM »
According to our resident professor, this young person is merely one of the bright being freed from the tyranny of the dim. Notice he has yet to post on this thread. Figured at the very least he would make fun of my phone, and the lack of effort on my part to fix my thread title.

An AFR Lost Boy catches Magic-8-Ball Disease from the source of the disease.


Goes to show: Having unprotected e-sex with M'Anus ain't safe...
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Offline BuccinGator

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Re: Acedemia at work
« Reply #21 on: March 18, 2019, 01:24:34 PM »
An AFR Lost Boy catches Magic-8-Ball Disease from the source of the disease.


Goes to show: Having unprotected e-sex with M'Anus ain't safe...


Watch the video, asshole. It's all over the gawddayumed place.
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Offline NuminousGuy

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Re: Acedemia at work
« Reply #22 on: March 18, 2019, 01:29:21 PM »
Watch the video, asshole. It's all over the gawddayumed place.

That's for idiots like you. Guess you kinda went looking for the massacre video...for some personal reason...
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Offline NuminousGuy

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Re: Acedemia at work
« Reply #23 on: March 18, 2019, 01:40:30 PM »
Quote
There are good people on both sides...


Quote
I can tell you I have the support of the police, the support of the military, the support of the Bikers for Trump — I have the tough people, but they don’t play it tough — until they go to a certain point, and then it would be very bad, very bad. But the left plays it cuter and tougher.


attribution: Amerika's chief White Nationalist racist scumbag.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 02:18:12 PM by NuminousGuy »
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Online Misterfamous

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Re: Acedemia at work
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2019, 02:31:00 PM »
Watch the video, asshole. It's all over the gawddayumed place.
What's key is the narrative that's being sold. 

When people are outraged over a militant killing 50 people in New Zealand, fine.  What comes next for many of them ?  Suggestions that gun laws need to be changed or accusations that the President of the United States is somehow responsible.  That's rapid politicization.  Meanwhile, Boko Haram, a militant ISIS-affiliated Islamic hate group killed 120 Christians in the past month in Nigeria, and there's not been a peep about it.  Not war-related killing of security forces (though there are those too), but innocent civilians, many of them children.  This Chechen asshole in the Netherlands shot 8 people today, killing 3, and it will be removed from the U.S. news cycle by the end of the week, as it can't be effectively tied to calls for gun control or Donald Trump promoting Islamophobia. 

Mass murder is mass murder.  Pretending some victims are worse off than others is shameful behavior, to say the least.

EDIT: Sorry, the Netherlands gunman is a Turk, not a Chechen. 
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 02:42:52 PM by Misterfamous »
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